Sunday, July 31, 2011


  • We thank GM Garrett Gee of Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun for taking the time to speak with us on a unique combat system based on 'Time Space Energy" and its "Six Gates" concepts, principles and theories and its individual techniques.

    For more info: There is an article on Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun in 'Complete Wing Chun' by R. Chu, Rene Ritchie, Y. Wu and 'Mastering Kung Fu' by GM Garrett Gee, Richard Loewenhagen, Benny Meng.
    May 15 at 3:02pm · Privacy: ·  · 








Technique Training vs System Training...Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun...A WingChunMasters' feature.

Technique Training vs System Training

by Wing Chun Masters on Sunday, May 15, 2011 at 2:39pm
In the past two years learning Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun under GM Garrett Gee, I am seeing the differences between technique and system training. The ability to recognize time distortion and incorrect structure is also part of this process.

We've had many visitors to our school from other Wing Chun lineages anxious to compare knowledge and skill. I am impressed with the display of proper kung fu culture and respect to GM Gee and our members by these martial artists. They often ask what the differences are between their Wing Chun and Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun. They have the center line, Tan, Bong, Fuk, Chi-Sao, wooden dummy all of the same techniques. What makes Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun unique?

Just two weeks ago another wing chun practitioner from Australia visited our school. A wing chun practitioner for more than four years, he had completed the chum kiu level of training. When demonstrating the first muk jong form, his initial biu jong sau had time distortion and lacked proper structure. When attempting to engage with my sihing Ricky Chu, the visiting practitioner continually retreated with a 'pin sun' side body. In HFY this is considered running away and another example of time distortion with improper structure. Sihing Chu dominated with the most basic HFY biu jong sau, center line occupation of space.

All lineages of Wing Chun claim the center line, but it becomes an illusion unless a realistic boundary measurable in time exists. A strait line from a practitioner to their opponent is the common definition, but that allows a distortion in time. Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun defines that boundary with the Hung Fa Yi box theory. I have personally been at the mercy of my sihings many times by violating that very principle.

Another reinforcement to this concept comes from my sihings Allen Chow, Ricky Chu, J.R. Santos, Mike G. Milton W. Their after school activities often involve underground gong sao matches or public tournaments. There they encounter fighters from other lineages eager to test their skills. Most of these competitions were won by basic Hung Fa Yi 'Sup Ming Dim Siu Lin Tau' skills. They have often commented about the lack of what Hung Fa Yi considers proper structure by these opponents. Also they were surprised at how quickly these opponents were willing to give up the center.

For every new technique I learn, I have also learned that it is only as good as the principle that supports it. From the Hung Fa Yi concept of time and space with HFY sup ming dim guide for proper structure with the application of one or more of the Hung Fa Yi five energies. Ying, lau, chung, saat and fa play an equally important role to implement a technique with maximum effect.

GM Gee is teaching the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun System, enabling the practitioner to recognize these differences in real time.

Bruce Stanberry
Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun
27 September 2010
       HFY108.com

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    • Kevin Smith With respect,

      When you are talking about tests of skills, How are you testing this? Simply Chi Sau, sparring, scenarios,what ??? I am a WSLVT guy and I have had more than my fair share of comps. But most of the time they only wanted to do chi sau. Theory, Structure, recovery, coordination is all good. But can you Fight and survive a real confrontation? That is the question.
      May 15 at 3:29pm ·  ·  8 people
    • Πανος Χρηστου Kevin you are absolutely right man!
      May 15 at 3:57pm ·  ·  1 person
    • Backyard Wing Chun ‎@ Kevin thats it. I have said this over and over real life is so unpredictable knowledge and skill are important but can the person be calm or able to suppress his emotions such as fear or self confidence that arise in full on fight or in a high level confrontation.
      May 15 at 5:40pm ·  ·  1 person
    • Susan Harkins It is the individual artist you are only as good as your practice You could come from great teachers and if you do not use what was taught your art will be crap. At out kwoon we practice both form and practical use. We try to find unpredictable circumstances so we do not get complacent, and think we know it all , which buy the way we never will with much respect Sifu Susan Harkins
      May 15 at 7:47pm ·  ·  1 person
    • Mike Sheng You all are right.
      May 15 at 8:36pm · 
    • Matthew Behnke Perhaps you could elaborate on what "a distortion in time" means. Do you have a doctor who tardis? LOL only joking but a little more information would go a long way to informing readers of your intentions here. Again, how do you distort time?
      May 15 at 10:33pm ·  ·  1 person
    • Backyard Wing Chun 
      Well I have read this 3 times and I have read and seen Richard Chu's books and DVD's he seems ok a few things are different but the guy from Australia is obviously not in his league, but denouncing the style in the way the paragraph was wri...See More
      May 15 at 11:20pm ·  ·  4 people
    • Wing Chun Masters ‎@Matthew, GM Garrett Gee is not connected to Facebook , we forwarded your question to him, and just received this from GM Gee. posting in the next box.
      May 16 at 12:01am · 
    • Wing Chun Masters 
      Response from GM Garrett Gee: Here is my response below...

      --------------------------​-------------------------

      Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun is based on the concept of "Time Space & Energy".
      The Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun system recognizes three time zones, center
      line time zone, box theory time zone and gate theory time zone. The
      strategies and applications using maximum efficiency are determined by
      Hung FA Yi Five Energies factor based on the distortion in time. These
      concepts are not easily understood even with previous martial arts
      experience. If you would like more insight into the Hung Fa Yi Wing
      Chun System please go online to "hfy108.com". This forum is shared by
      many Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun members and you will be welcomed to open
      discussions with them. For information about Grand Master Gee, the
      history and lineage of Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun you may visit
      http://hfy108.com/forums/s​howthread.php?2737-Hung-Fa​-Yi-HQ-News-Express%2Fpage​6
      May 16 at 12:03am · 
    • Matthew Behnke 
      ‎@ Wing Chun Masters, please thank Mr. Gee for his time in posting a response. Indeed, the HFY system seems to be very complicated, to the uninitiated in these concepts. Perhaps one day I will meet in person with someone who can explain t...See More
      May 16 at 12:22am ·  ·  1 person
    • Wing Chun Masters ‎@Matthew, he said for you to email him at: worldhfy@gmail.com, he will correspond directly with you.
      May 16 at 12:39am ·  ·  1 person
    • Sifu Cliff Would be nice to have Master Gm Garrett Gee online on facebook, I would like to hear more about his theorys but these theorys are already taught in many of the Wing Chun Method under differnt names, I wonder does he have anything differnt to add to the gates Time and space ?
      May 16 at 12:45am ·  ·  1 person
    • Wing Chun Masters Sifu Cliff: GM Gee will be delighted to speak with you, email him at ; worldhfy@gmail.com.
      May 16 at 12:49am · 
    • Matthew Behnke Thankyou Wing Chun Masters...your efforts are much appreciated!
      May 16 at 12:58am ·  ·  25 people
    • John Crescione 
      If most would change the words to timing and distance,it will make more sense-there is also body space,which refers to bio mechanical advantage--the time concept should be taken separate as timing also-time for the punch to land on my oppon...See More
      May 16 at 1:04am ·  ·  4 people
    • Matthew Behnke 
      ‎@ John, with language, it is indeed hard to communicate such concepts on a 2 dimensional medium, but I think that what you are referring to is a distortion in someones thinking, not in reality, as is suggested by "a distortion in time". It appears that where the complication is coming from is our built up ideas around concepts introduced in training. I prefer the KISS method. (Keep It Simple Smiley). If you can teach it to children, you can teach it to anyone...
      May 16 at 1:19am · 
    • Regans Martial Arts any good system has all this, good teachers who share it may be rare but their really are no "technique" systems.
      May 16 at 1:23am ·  ·  2 people
    • Backyard Wing Chun 
      How deep do we take martial arts in general I mean and this is with no disrespect to anyone who has commented here I have John as a FB friend and I highly regard his comments and Wing Chun Masters for having these great themes, but I never believed one style is better than another and this is what HFY is implying..... secondly I might be lacking in this deep philosophical part or as the wording was put to the uninitiated, but all this transcending to the 3rd or even 4th dimension is...... I am afraid beyond me.... I teach my students how to survive on the street, I build up their trust in the use of Wing Chun techniques and how many really have this ??, I build up their self confidence to stand up in crisis situations, I teach the concepts of wing chun build up their structure and body coordination, teach timing and now I have to go in time distortion, i don't know... in the fights I have been in and the ones I have seen you gotto react man theres no time distortion when you got some big thug whos into you so fast I personally know street fighters who would mash a lot of wing chun guys just out of sheer speed and viciousness. It just seems to me that it sounds like your turning a simple efficient Self defense system into a tantric form and eluding the main concept of self defense and thats simplicity..... Sorry but thats the way I see this Technique Training vs System Training panning out I may have miss interpreted this whole thing so please pardon my ignorace
      May 16 at 2:22am ·  ·  2 people
    • Choi Choi 
      Every one that's been in ma -- especially wing chun -- a long time would know there are a lot of 'marketing' around. It matters not what people say, but what they can do. If you really want to find out how good someone is, 'play' with them. ALL good sifus would never deny you the chance to test their skills. To me, if the principles & concept are 'not so easily understood, even by people with experience', then I would 'question' how it complies with wing chun's principle of 'easy to learn & simplicity'. I don't know much about HFY so I'm not critising it here, only stating my own philosophy of never taking anything for granted & we must question everything with a critical mind
      May 16 at 4:07am ·  ·  2 people
    • Richard Walker 
      All this is to much to truly comment on. Anyone can be beaten at any given moment. Yes there is a philosophy to Wing Chun. All being said practice and being humble as well as being aware of your situation will help you to overcome many fighting situations,but if you have to defend yourself speed accuracy and confidence in your skill will help you to overcome any enemy. This is why I tell my students to practice. This will build your confidence and also the practical uses of Wing Chun must also be included.As for any style being better than the other I feel Wing Chun is the best for many reasons that I do not feel to mention here. I know just saying this will create other comments to the opposite. Do not waste your time I will refuse to play this game. I have the right to feel this is the true way. Ask anyone about Wing Chun hand techniques. I know of many MA that study Wing Chun for this reason....
      May 16 at 4:49am ·  ·  5 people
    • Ben Shue Chinese martial is as such, when your body is purged, and your system is connected, you start to understand a lot of things.
      May 16 at 5:29am · 
    • Marcelo Alexandrino 
      As far I as understand it, having studied HFY for a couple of years, the phrasing is impacting, but there ain't no misterious thing behind it: time distortion happens when you take more time than it's needed because you do not have proper body alignment according to the three theories of centerline, gates and boxes, which are described in the Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Formula. The "box" is the space, defined by that same formula, where simultaneous defense and attack is possible to be delivered. And simultaneous attack and defense is all about maximun efficiency (no distortions in time + space). So, no, HFY is not better than any other MA, but it has its own theory about maximun efficiency and GM Gee decided to communicate it openly to the MA community.
      May 16 at 6:37am ·  ·  1 person
    • Backyard Wing Chun 
      Boy has this bloated out I agree 200% with Richard and i was waiting for some one to comment and say that the best way to find out if some one is good is to try him out well I never in my comments queried this GMs ability to be quite blunt I don't even give a rats arse so don't read whats not there. The discussion is how do you distort time and everyone is guessing and no satisfactory answers are coming to light. So I put it to the person who wrote the article " If you are being attacked with a fast hard right cross and a quick follow up left how would you apply time distortion to counter and manipulate your opponent " thats all I don't want explanations on energies or philosophies or dimensions or anything as simple as i worded this hypothetical situation as simple the answer must be.
      May 16 at 6:37am · 
    • Marcelo Alexandrino See above, brother. Nobody distorts time. "Time" and "Space" "distortions" mean: you do not have proper alignment, so you will spend more time because you will have to move more than you should when applying a technique. Maximum efficiency and economy of motion (thus, energy) are linked in this concept.
      May 16 at 6:51am · 
    • Backyard Wing Chun Thanks for clearing this up but those are the three basic rules I learned when I was taught by Jimmy Fung 1. economy of movement 2. effcient and simple techniques 3. the minimum use of brute strength so nothing new there thank you sir.
      May 16 at 7:01am ·  ·  1 person
    • Backyard Wing Chun that was 30 years ago
      May 16 at 7:02am ·  ·  1 person
    • Matthew Behnke Anyway, good on the Aussie for having a go, even if he was out of his league, obviously he learned from his mistakes as did the author of the article ;-)
      May 16 at 7:20am ·  ·  3 people
    • Mendip Wing Chun Kuen Can i join in !!lol !!!!no not really...im out of this one..:-))
      May 16 at 9:55am · 
    • John Crescione Thanks for the comments and clarification Marcelo!
      May 16 at 10:26am ·  ·  2 people
    • John Crescione It's all good guys-it's communication,...
      May 16 at 10:27am ·  ·  1 person
    • Harold Hessen Diaz Garcia es lo mejor los felicito soy su admirador numero uno
      May 16 at 11:20am ·  ·  1 person
    • Wing Chun Masters ‎@Harold, gracias por su gratitud.
      May 16 at 11:24am · 
    • Matthew Behnke Next time there's a stacks on, just give me a hoy!...PMSL ;-)
      May 16 at 10:43pm ·  ·  4 people
    • Backyard Wing Chun Thats funny Matthew like a cyber fight
      May 17 at 1:26am ·  ·  1 person
    • Backyard Wing Chun ‎:)
      May 17 at 3:44am · 
    • John Crescione See perfect example -terminology-I didn't know what a "stacks on" was-after I saw the video-it's a pile up or pile on-New York terminology vs. Oz terminology
      May 17 at 10:52am ·  ·  1 person
    • John Crescione 
      Unfortunately,HFY has always had a bumpy road with terminology and whether some of their members cared to speak in English to the other WCK people-AND TO SHARE INFO--I have been there pretty much from the beginning-so again for Marcelo-thank you for the clarification-I have had my share of run in's with certain HFY members over the years on terminology and other things-but in the end-it's all the same stuff when you really look at it-IMHO. I know everybody wants to be separate-equal but better-LOL-But I am still hoping they come out and start posting some real vids and more articles,especially since Benny has left.
      May 17 at 11:05am ·  ·  1 person
    • Eduardo Parés 
      Time, space, energy = nothing new... sounds like basic, universal VT/WC jargon to me. Variations of these terms could just be marketing gimmicks. As far as confrontations go, the individual's mind, body, and spirit are put to the test, and that has a direct effect on what happens with time, space, and energy. It is all very intangible, and therefore it is not even worthy of debating. The indivudual is what/who ought to be considered FIRST, in real confrontations.
      May 17 at 2:38pm ·  ·  1 person
    • Greg Yau 
      Proper time/timing, space/distance, energy/conserve? Just guessing. Unless we get into quantum physics. Way too late for that. Will demonstrate what it means to me after spending too much time on reading this.

      Will demonstrate on video tomorrow. See if you understand me afterwards. Giving the secrets away? Won't be a secret anymore after this. If I am wrong, it won't be the first time. I can laugh at myself.

      The demo is on using spaceless/timeless/intrins​ic energy.

      "A Punch Comes from the Heart". This one is for you Margie.
      May 18 at 3:59am ·  ·  1 person
    • Greg Yau Here is the intro:

      http://youtu.be/aBYjL2RMih​s
      May 19 at 12:05am · 
    • Sovannaroth Kruich Too complex to fit in a comment box but Time does not equal timing, nor does Space equate to distance, or energy mean power/force. Here is a link to a discussion on TSE from 9/07: http://hfy108.com/forums/s​howthread.php?2353-Time-Sp​ace-Energy-amp-Wing
      May 19 at 1:57am · 
    • Wing Chun Masters ‎@Sovann; need the actual Hung Fa Yi experience!
      May 19 at 2:02am · 
    • Sovannaroth Kruich Most definitely! Can't learn kung fu on the internet...
      May 19 at 2:06am ·  ·  1 person
    • Greg Yau Depends. Most cannot, only a few can. Ability to tap Apriori knowledge is the key.

      http://holon137.com/Matter​-BeingProject/?cat=181
      May 19 at 2:41am · 
    • John Crescione I never said only..
      May 19 at 10:34am · 
    • John Crescione And welcome Savi-you will find this a COMPLETELY different world then the Wing Chun Kung Fu Forums page-you will find the sharing of information,knowledge and tolerance refreshing,but if you ahve been lurking,then you will know already,and if you are recently new,you'll see...we all share-we all explain,we all contribute as friends..
      May 19 at 11:02am · 
    • Greg Yau Being in the zone is time distortion. I notice that when I used to get or potentially get into fights (35 years ago), everything slows down. I can make decisions fast. Plus I used Wing Chun techniques and knocked the guy out. What happens when you panic?

      I can film what I did instinctively using Chum Kiu Lan Sao and upper cut. Upon request.
      May 19 at 1:24pm ·  ·  1 person